What do you think about women in ministry? What positions can she hold? Why did Paul write what he did?
Wow, what a loaded question. I feel somewhat safe though entering into the fray. I got me five beautifully, talented girls and an amazing, gifted, incredible wife. One of my five girls, I even adopted. I couldn't get enough! Regardless of what I say, no one can doubt me that I am indeed pro-women!
Genesis 1:27 - Man and Woman are made in the image of God. They are equal in value and equally gifted and necessary for God's plan of redeeming the world to Himself.
But, what about women in ministry, specifically, church pastoral ministry...?
Here are the two extremes:
In one corner, women are not allowed to be pastors, elders, teach or hold authority over a man.
The verses likes these are cited:
1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
The command is based not on women's lack of learning or a cultural issue that Paul is dealing with. His reasoning is based on God's created order as established in Genesis.
1 Timothy 3:2-5
2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?
An elder is the husband of one wife, It seems pretty clear that the leadership structure is set so that men will lead the churches.
1 Corinthians 14:33-34
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
Again, not exactly politically correct, but clear, and refers to the law as its reasoning.
And the verses in that corner are, uh, hmm...
Well, o.k. there is this verse:
Galatians 3:27-28
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Great verse but says nothing about church leadership.
Or Priscilla was talked about as a leader of a church plant in Romans 16.
She was definately a team with Aquila in the planting of a church, and her name often comes before her husbands. But, there is nothing clear regarding God's plan for church leadership in the little we have about her.
Other than that, there aren't a lot of verses that seem to support this idea of women holding pastoral leadership positions in the church. Now, I am just stating it as I see it, but I can't understand how people can justify it biblically.
So, what does that look like practically?
A women can teach other women, like it says in Titus 2.
A women can teach children like it says in 2 Timothy 1:5 and 2 Timothy 3:14
A women can teach men like Priscilla did to Apollos in Acts 18:26.
A women can be a deacon according to 1 Timothy 3:8-13, (deacon being a gender neutral term and the passage is structured different than the elder passage in 1 Timothy 2)
A women can even teach at a conference or at a bible study or praying in front or sharing in a church setting... Why would I say that? Because what is being talked about mostly here is the teaching that comes with the authority that comes with leading and shepherding a church as an elder.
So, a women cannot be an elder which is a pastor. That was ordained by God in the Law and in the created order. Why? I don't know. Maybe because women are specially designed to bear children and have the ability to raise children. That is an amazingly difficult role, one of which my children are very thankful that I do not have. God doesn't always give reasons why but in this scenario, with this specific question, I have to go with the clear evidence that I see in the Bible...
So, as my little girls become little women, I will teach them clearly and with gentleness and humility what the Bible has to say. But, I will teach them to teach others that God may spread the word of God to the world through their lives and words... Amen!
I would love to hear any other feedback. Bring it on!
(I just got a comment "There is nothing wrong with women in ministry." I just want to clarify that I totally agree with that comment. There are a whole assortment of ministry options for women. Missionary, youth, women, conferences and much, much more... I was just speaking specifically of being an teaching elder/pastor of a church.)
5 comments:
Thanks for the answer Steve! I have a question regarding the reference to women being silent in churches, they are not permitted to speak, etc (1 Corinthians 14:33-34). This seems to refer to women being silent if they are even present in the church, let alone being a leader or elder in the church. What is the historical context behind this? This seems a bit harsh, and very strict. Are women expected to be this way, or what am I missing here?
looking at this critically, the Bible does not give any logical reasoning or justification behind why a woman can not become a pastor or elder. It just says that a woman can't. In my mind this is BS. Women can teach, lead, mentor, ect. and do everything a pastor or elder can do just not have that title or position. Why?
Or am I misreading it. If there was a reasoning and/or justivication behind it, I would be ok with that, but if I don't agree with what the Bible says, I don't feel like I can trust it.
Thanks for the questions: It has indeed been too long to answer. I was looking through my Computer bible program and found the woman's study bible put out by Thomas Nelson... They had some good insight to the questions posed in comment that might answer these questions.
1 cor 14:34, 35 Paul recognized that women were praying and prophesying in public worship and did not condemn them for doing so (1 Cor. 11:5). Yet here he commanded that women “keep silent in the churches” (1 Cor. 14:34). One way of resolving what some consider a discrepancy is by considering the particular type of speech that Paul disallowed. In this passage, he was probably discussing the gift of prophecy, and more specifically, the evaluation or judgment of prophecy (1 Cor. 14:29–39). Paul allowed women to participate in worship and, indeed, expected that they would do so (v. 26), but here he may have been forbidding them from giving spoken criticisms of the prophecies that were made because he was concerned that the principle of headship be evidenced in the public assembly of believers. Women’s silence during the evaluation of prophecy was one of the ways in which this was to be accomplished. Another way to understand this command for women to be silent is in relationship to Paul’s command to the believers to do all things “decently and in order” (v. 40). God “is not the author of confusion” (v. 33). The women could have been displaying some kind of disorderly conduct (v. 35). Others suggest, since the subject of major discussion in chapter 14 is tongues, that the prohibition to women is to refrain from ecstatic utterance. Clearly this cannot mean that women are forbidden altogether to speak in the assembly (1 Cor. 11:5).
And to answer the second question, where the writer asks for some logical reasoning. You know, i would be careful with that kind of reasoning, if I can't agree with it, I can't trust it therefore I won't obey it. In the old testament, especially, God has some crazy laws which make no sense at the time, and yet many years later we can look back and realize how wise the laws were helping keep the Israelites healthy against disease. I would say that many of God's laws, including no sex before marriage and turning the other cheek and letting others take your clothes again don't make sense. But, God is never wrong. We must obey Him, even if it doesn't feel right. All is all, these are very difficult passages and they can easily be argued one way or another. If you disagree biblically, show me scripture where I am wrong and help me learn... Thanks!
I also included another section of study notes from the Woman's study bible... Let me know what you think.
2:11 Women should learn with an attitude of quiet submissiveness. Paul seemingly wanted to be certain the women were well-grounded in the Word of God (2 Tim. 3:6, 7). This should be:
“In silence” (Gk. hēsuchia), meaning “quietness,” a more appropriate meaning since women did normally speak in the worship assembly (1 Tim. 2:11, 12; see 1 Cor. 11:5; 14:26);
“With all submission,” suggesting that instruction was to be received respectfully.
Women were to receive instruction in the worship assembly with a heart of quiet receptivity to the Word.
2:12 Paul clarified his directive: Women were not “to teach or to have authority over a man.” Paul spoke of a consistent practice of teaching or exercising authority, which would not preclude an occasional teaching situation to be done by a woman for men. In the NT, the verb “teach” (Gk. didaskō) nearly always refers to teaching in group settings. The teacher expounded the OT Scripture and the apostles’ teachings (1 Cor. 4:17; 2 Tim. 2:2) and presented the implications of that truth for daily living (see Matt. 28:19, 20). The verb translated “to have authority” (Gk. authenteō) occurs only here in the NT and is rarely used in ancient literature. Although it can possibly mean “to domineer” or “to usurp authority,” the meaning “to have authority” seems preferable. Third, although the grammar allows for this phrase to refer to a single activity (as “to teach authoritatively”), the word “or” makes it preferable to view these as two separate activities. Since authority and submission are important issues, teaching seems to be a subset of holding authority. That is, some women were violating God’s pattern of authority and submission through their teaching in the assembly (1 Tim. 2:13, 14).
2:13, 14 Paul gave theological reasons for his directive that women in the worship assembly learn in a quiet and submissive manner rather than having a position of teaching or exercising authority over men. Through the rabbinic method of summary citation, Paul used a summary statement (v. 13 and Gen. 2:4–24; 1 Tim. 2:14 and Gen. 3:1–25). In both cases, Paul was making an implied application by analogy based on the Genesis account. Adam was created before Eve, implying that Adam’s prior creation carried with it some degree of responsibility and authority. This authority is possibly based on the OT concept of primogeniture, through which the eldest son became the family head, a leader of family worship, and the recipeint of a double portion of the inheritance (Deut. 21:15–17). Paul may have been asserting that Adam’s status as the eldest carried with it the leadership fitting a firstborn son. He was in no way teaching an essential superiority of a man over the woman; instead, he was showing how man’s leadership in the church harmonized with the Creator’s design for the home and community. Thus Paul’s unstated application was that just as in creation the final responsibility rested with the man, so it also should in the church. Paul again was not suggesting that women were less intelligent or were more easily deceived than men. Instead, he used the account of the Fall to point out the role reversal that occurred when Adam knowingly allowed himself to be led into sin by his wife. God had originally instructed Adam concerning the forbidden fruit (Gen. 2:17), and the Lord clearly placed the ultimate responsibility with Adam (Rom. 5:12; see Gen. 3:17, where “heeded” has the sense of “obeyed”). Thus Paul’s application by analogy was that this role reversal that caused so much trouble in the beginning should not be repeated in the worship assembly through the consistent practice of the teaching of men by women.
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